Hall of Fame, Hockey, Sports

Gilmour vs. Muller…and why Mats belongs

Some time in September I had nothing to do and a friend had mentioned that he thought Gilmour as unworthy as the Hall as Muller. So I decided to pursue a numbers argument. I never published it (I must have pushed the ‘save as draft’ button instead) and I remembered it when I was thinking about Mats-bashers recently. I found it and here it is:

“Gilmour and Muller were both passed over for the hall of fame this summer. A friend insisted that neither deserved to be in as they were similar in terms of their merit. Here is a statistical comparison.

Doug Gilmour, C, drafted 134th overall by the Blues in 1982. 20 seasons in the league.


Kirk Muller, C, drafted 2nd overall in 1984 by the Devils. 19 seasons in the league.

Before NHL was top scorer in OHL in ’83 (177 points in 68 games). OHL numbers: 128G, 203A for 331 points and 139 PIM in 186 games in the Q and O.

OHL numbers: 95G, 162A for 257 points and 95 PIM in 184 games in the O.

1 for Dougie.

450G, 964A for 1414 points and 1299 PIM in 1474 games (0.9593 ppg and 0.8813 penalties pg). That’s 11th all-time in assists, 16th all-time in points.

357G, 602A for 959 points and 1223 PIM in 1349 games (0.7109 ppg and 0.9070 penalties pg).
76th all-time in terms of points. 67th all-time in terms of assists.

2 for Dougie.

3 seasons with 100 or more points including 1 with 127 points (’93 Leafs). 127 points ties him with Esposito, Yzerman, Mogilny and Jagr for the 53rd best individual season in terms of points scored (Gretzky and Lemieux having many of the top 50 seasons in the NHL).

2 seasons with 90+ points.

3 for Dougie.

Scored 40 goals (’87 Blues) plus two other 30 goal years (’88 Blues, ’93 Leafs).

scored 30+ goals 5 times, 3 times with the Devils, twice with the Habs.

Give it to Muller for consistency. 3 to 1 for Dougie.

1 season with 95 assists tying him with LaFontaine for the 17th most assists in a single season. Only Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Oates and now Thornton have had more. Had another season with ’84 (tied for 42nd most in a single season).

57 assists twice.

Dougie 4, Muller 1.

’93 Selkie winner, though giving it to someone who scored 127 points makes no sense.

No awards that I know of.

Dougie 5, Muller 1.

60G, 128A for 188 points and 235 PIM in 182 games (1.0300 ppg and 1.2912 penalties pg) in the playoffs. 7th all-time behind only Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey and Bret Hull. Making him the only other player aside from Hull in the top 7 to not be a member of at least some of the 1980s Oiler dynasty teams.

33G, 36A for 69 points and 153 PIM in 127 games (0.5433 ppg and 1.2047 penalties pg).

Dougie 6, Muller 1.

4 years with 20+ playoff points, including 1 year with 35.

Never got near that.

Dougie 7, Muller 1.

Scored 10 or more playoff goals twice

Scored 10+ goals in the playoffs once.

Call it a tie, to be nice.

Had 20 assists in the playoffs twice.

Nothing comparable.

Dougie 8, Muller 1, 1 tie

Cups: 1989 Flames.

Cups: 1993 Habs.

Tie. Final scores: Dougie 8, Muller 1, 2 ties.

Clearly Gilmour deserves to be in over Muller. Now many people think Gilmour shouldn’t be in because of only the 1 cup, or because he “only had a few good years.”

I have too much time on my hands, I guess I should get a job.

Be seeing you.”

That was it.

And now…It’s…

“How Can Anyone Bash Mats? The Numbers Game”

16 straight 20-goal seasons, in 12 of those he scored 30 goals, and in 3 he scored 40,
14 seasons with 50 or more points (which will be 15 unless he gets hurt right now) with the only season he scored less than 50 being the strike-shortened season
5 seasons with 50 or more assists
1 season with over 100 points

But more impressively:
517 goals puts him 31st all-time
697 assists puts him 45th all-time
1214 points puts him 38th all-time

For most of his career, he played during a defense-first era, when he has played in offense-first eras he was at the beginning and latter stages of his career. Also, he played for most of his career on a weak-ass team that just about always did better than it should have.

Oh yeah: 83 playoff games, 74 points.

I just don’t get the bashing. Seriously. Mats is awesome. Nobody is making any claim that he’s the greatest player ever (he’s not even the greatest Swedish player ever in my mind) but he’s still awesome. Players should not be faulted for the stupidity of organizations / GMs / coaches so don’t use that “never won a cup” argument with me.

Anyway, it’s annoying.

As for trading him: well the Leafs won’t get what they should get if they trade him, because they are not thinking about the future. They never think about the future. That’s why they don’t win cups.

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